Happy birthday Linux

I don't really care for the OS. I don't find it to be anymore reliable than Windows 10 or a Linux distribution ;o

all unix distributions feel like 40 yrs. behind compared to todays modern OS visuals.
It's not a secret that most linux distribution maintainers today inject some kind of spyware into their distributions just like MS and Apple do.

The only linux you can still trust today is debian and one that is completely self made,
ex. https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

It's not a secret that most linux distribution maintainers today inject some kind of spyware into their distributions just like MS and Apple do.

That's quite a bold claim to just throw out without any sources.

The only linux you can still trust today is debian and one that is completely self made,
ex. https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

Oh, but it's not completely self-made, is it? How do you know the kernel developers didn't add any telemetry in there? I think you should continue until you're doing your own photolithography on your own silicon (which you grew by CVD and then cut yourself, of course), which you will then use to run your own source code. And none of that shady business of using other people's compilers, either. Remember the problem of trusting trust, which Ken Thomson wrote about when he received his Turing award.

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deleted account xyzzy (5768)

all unix distributions feel like 40 yrs. behind compared to todays modern OS visuals.

I prefer an OS that works with a minimum of hiccups, running the software I want to run; looking pretty is far down my list of things to like about an OS.

MS keeps emphasizing making Windows look pretty, much of what they do is put lipstick on a resource hog that gets more ravenous with each iteration.

MS keeps emphasizing making Windows look pretty, much of what they do is put lipstick on a resource hog that gets more ravenous with each iteration.

With a good CPU and SSD, no modern computer should struggle to run Windows 10. Its actually quite fast!

For the same price as a Mac, you get better specs, more storage, and performance just as good, if not better, than the highly optimized MacOS. Then the added bonus of gaming.

No computer should struggle just to run the OS, even if it doesn't have a particularly powerful CPU or an SSD. That it runs well with both of those is hardly a feat of engineering.

JRManx (603)

zapshe wrote:
I don't find it to be anymore reliable than Windows 10 or a Linux distribution

My G5 has never let me down in all the 15 years I've had it. Sure, it's a little slow compared to modern Mac Pro's, but I prefer the look and feel of the older OS X as compared to the newer macOS Big Sur.

It is also much more reliable than the crummy Dells that they make us use at work, since the management is too cheap to buy good computers. We have to update the virus-protection practically every month, and even then they crap out several times a year.

Those jokes about Windows updates do have legitimate origins, you know.

zapshe wrote:
For the same price as a Mac, you get better specs, more storage, and performance just as good, if not better, than the highly optimized MacOS. Then the added bonus of gaming.

If PC's were as expensive as Macs, no one would buy them. Show me the better specs. More storage? Pfft. I have eight terabytes of space on my NAS. Performance? I just mentioned my G5 compared to the Dells we use at work. Gaming? Ok, for the people who only want to play video games on their computers, PC's are fine. Macs are for people who actually want to do stuff.

Those jokes about Windows updates do have legitimate origins, you know.

Windows updates take about 2 minutes on average for me. Some have been as quick as 30 seconds (reboot included). I recall once it took about 5 minutes for a rather large update.

The main reason Windows updates tend to be slow are those pesky Hard Drives! MacOS usually felt superior to people for a long time since Macs come standard with SSDs (it keeps their product feeling premium), while Windows users could cheap out with a hard drive.

Windows updates have not been an issue for me since my last laptop, over 3 years ago. SSD and Windows 10 is a great combination - powerful CPU doesn't hurt, but not even necessary.

What??? I can't believe the arguments I'm reading right now!

PCs ARE as expensive as Macs - on the mid to high end specs. My last laptop cost about $1400 after fully upgrading it. The specs were:

i7-7700HQ
GTX 1060 6GB
16GB RAM
1.25TB Storage
4K Screen
JBL Speakers w/ Subwoofer
Windows Hello Infrared Camera (Really Fast Login!)
RBG and anti-ghosting keyboard

My sister bought a similarly priced Mac, her specs?

An i5 that was several years older than the current generation at the time she bought it (don't remember the exact i5)
No dedicated GPU
256GB Storage
4GB RAM
White backlit keyboard
Admittedly:
Nice screen
Good speakers
Nice Trackpad

Her speakers were on par with mine, her trackpad was larger, her screen went about 100nits brighter than mine.

Sure, using her laptop was smooth, it didn't suffer from the old i5. But my laptop was just as smooth! My specs completely annihilated hers at the same price point!

You can watch this video comparing an 11,000 Mac and 11,000 PC - AFTER upgrading the Mac! And the Mac still performs sub-par compared to the PC!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzT0-t-7-PA

And personally, I never recommend Dell. I've only had issues with them. I've been going Lenovo for years now and their computers are really good. Also, you can compare low-end computers all day, but if you have ANY Mac tower/laptop, you WILL find a higher spec Windows version at the same price or lower. The laptop I'm using right now HAS NO Apple-laptop equivalent. There just isn't.

There's so much to say, I could write a book. No upgradable storage or RAM, servicing a Mac requires specialized people, etc..... Macs would be better than PCs if Venus crashed into Earth. It simply doesn't happen.

EDIT:

LMAOOO! I found this Mac laptop:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-macbook-pro-16-laptop-intel-core-i9-64gb-memory-8tb-ssd-space-gray/6394198.p?skuId=6394198

For almost $6000 !!!! And it has lower specs than my current sub-2000 dollar laptop! I have no words for this find.

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I actually like macs. I have, until recently, own ones for many years. They have been workhorses that have outlasted the PCs that I have run along side them...but then the PCs were cheap in comparison. My Dell workstation was not cheap and easily match the Power Mac that it ran against for speed, longevity, quality, etc. similar spec similar price...or at least it used to be.

My problem here in the UK is that macs seem to be moving from expensive to over-priced. I just looked at a mac mini, an 8th-generation Intel Core i5 for over £1,000, for a few £100 more I could get a Dell XPS with an 11th Gen Intel Core i7.

I can't like Apple. Even if they weren't overpriced, it takes a lot of power away from the user. Treats the user as if they're dumb, which is fair I guess, but not for me. Moreover, you can't game.

These alone are deal breakers. Add on the overpriced nature, their willingness to let their laptops burn and thermal throttle before cranking up the fans, and the low specs they tout as if they're top of the line.... Can't do it.

Apple's phones are the only thing they seem to be able to do right - and even that isn't without their caveats. Though I do use an iPhone, and I'm not a power user with phones so the simplicity is nice.

zapshe wrote:
it takes a lot of power away from the user. Treats the user as if they're dumb, which is fair I guess, but not for me.

Can you expand on this? What power is taken away from the user and how does it treat them as dumb?

Guys, guys. I thought this had been settled already.
* Windows is better than Mac.
* PCs are better than consoles.
* vi is better than emacs.
* Tabs are better than spaces.
* Cats are better than dogs.
* Goku would (eventually) beat Superman in a fight.
* Ninjas are cooler than pirates.
* C++ is the best language, except for its next version.

I mean, this is all just established fact. Anyone who disagrees is just stupid or ignorant.

I mean, this is all just established fact. Anyone who disagrees is just stupid or ignorant.

I agree with all of those except for tabs vs spaces, goku vs superman, and possibly C++. Which shows my bias!

Can you expand on this? What power is taken away from the user and how does it treat them as dumb?

You can't switch out drivers like in Windows to use the ones you like best (for speakers/touchpad/etc..). There's plenty of wacky things I've seen people have to do in order to do something they could easily do on Windows.

https://tkacz.pro/mac-and-macos-limitations/

malibor (660)

helios,

That's quite a bold claim to just throw out without any sources.

There is no need, isn't ubuntu packed with telemetry and similar spyware?

Oh, but it's not completely self-made, is it? How do you know the kernel developers didn't add any telemetry in there?

By "completely-self made", I mean you compile every bit of your new linux OS and thus have access to every bit of source code that will run on your PC.

I don't think linux kernel contains any kind of malware because Linus Torvalds was already asked by NSA to do such a thing and he publicly refused!
Just google for "linus refused nsa"

Furry Guy,

MS keeps emphasizing making Windows look pretty, much of what they do is put lipstick on a resource hog that gets more ravenous with each iteration.

I agree with you on that and other portion of a post, however problem isn't as black&white as that, when you weight up pros and cons of the 2 OS's, then based on personal needs and preferences linux ends up with more cons than pros. compared to windows.

I think the best option is to have 2 computers, one with windows, other with linux, then you switch from one to another as needed.
For those who can't afford 2 computers, dual boot is equally good.

isn't ubuntu packed with telemetry and similar spyware?

Even if I answered that question with "yes", it would not imply that "most linux distribution maintainers today inject some kind of spyware into their distributions".

By "completely-self made", I mean you compile every bit of your new linux OS and thus have access to every bit of source code that will run on your PC.

I honestly don't know why you think that matters in the least if you're not going to audit all that code.

I don't think linux kernel contains any kind of malware because Linus Torvalds was already asked by NSA to do such a thing and he publicly refused!

Cool. But that just means you trust the kernel developers. It says absolutely nothing about whether the kernel is actually compromised in some way.

You have to choose one the following:
* Your system will be very rudimentary.
* You will dedicate most of your life to either audit code or build your system from scratch.
* You will need to trust the system someone else built for you, without being completely certain if it's secure.

malibor (660)

helios, to tell you the truth, I don't really trust anything when it come to software, and no one including me has enough time and skills to audit all of the code..

Therefore those choices you mentioned can be optimized to just 1 choice which means we do not have any choices except to accept that we're all pwned long time ago ;)

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zapshe, I was genuinely asking out of interest not any form argument (incase you were wondering).

My view is that all systems have their faults and annoyacies and it is just what you will or won't put up with. My main want is that the OS does it's job and keeps out of my way while I do mine.

zapshe, I was genuinely asking out of interest not any form argument (incase you were wondering).

I wasn't sure, didn't make any assumptions. Just that with something like Windows computers, you can tweak the BIOS for hardware control, create fan profiles, etc..

I mean, just look at this round about way a redditor found to overclock their GPU on a Mac:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bootcamp/comments/9vr33s/macbook_pro_2016_radeon_pro_450_gpu_overclock/

They needed to have Windows installed to accomplish it!

Things we take for granted to be able to do on a Windows computer Mac simply forbids. I believe undervolting your CPU on a Mac either has only recently been supported by Apple or they're still using some hacky methods to accomplish it.

These are things a Windows user never has to worry about, you know you always have access to the computer and Windows isn't shielding you from being able to shoot yourself in the foot - which I prefer.

Imagine a gun that only allowed you to shoot it when *it* thought the situation deemed it. You could argue this isn't a bad thing, and I'd agree. I'd say, give this gun to the noobs, the people who just want self-defense in the house. But would you give this gun to Roland from The Dark Tower? Would you give that gun to highly trained special forces? It simply wouldn't make sense to limit them in that way.

Perhaps not the best analogy but I think the point went across.

EDIT: Another site lmao:

https://www.alphr.com/features/110495/32-reasons-why-pcs-are-better-than-macs/

MacOS is basically just Linux with restrictions. I constantly find less and less reason to ever use Linux, let alone a Mac.

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zapshe, If I may boil it down a bit.

You rate a system by how easy it is to tweak and adjust it.
I rate a system by how much I don't have to tweak and adjust it.*
*generally

Both views are valid. I sometimes want play with hardware and/or OS, it's why I have multiple systems.

The only 'issue' I have is when I get treated as being a noob or uneducated because I choose something that I don't have to worry about. This is not aimed at anyone in particular.

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